So, I’ve of course been following the autobid debate on various forums after our announcements last week, and it’s been very interesting and vitalising. The discussions around this subject have also been somewhat different from the past forum threads about this subject (I read through all the threads I could find in the forum archive when starting up this project), as it’s now a debate of something that actually will enter the game and not just some random feature idea that could be good for the game.
Anyways. There are few things in the current discussions that I feel is important to point out.
First of all, it’s been a lot of talk about this being done to as a measure to stop trading, that it will make the transfer boring because all players will cost the same (“there will be no bargains”) and that we punish ‘active’ players. Which is pretty exaggerated, to say the least.
No, we don’t do this as a measure to stop trading. To be totally honest I don’t think this will have any huge effect (if any) on trading at all, it’s more an effect of prices are likely to be fluctuate less. And even if price are likely to fluctuate less, they will still fluctuate. Adding autobids just doesn’t mean that all the good deals on the transfer will suddenly disappear. That said, neither is price fluctuation the real reason for doing this, it’s rather a side effect. A side effect I don’t mind at all though, it’s a good one for the market and the economy overall.
The main reason for doing this to make the transfer more accessible for all kinds of Hattrick managers, to give the general user a better transfer experience. We know a lot of users miss out on the transfer experience today, and with that they miss a very big part of the game. Moreover, we don’t think it should be a must to be online at the time of the deadline in order to buy a player (or make a bad deal (pay more) just to be sure to get him). And we don’t see any fun in repetitive clicking (bidding) during a longer period of time either. There is simply no other task in the game that requires you to be online at a certain time, the whole game on the contrary based on being able to plan your actions ahead.
Then there are some that claim we by doing this benefit the “lazy” users, and find it odd that we don’t want our users to be active on our site.
Now, I don’t see any point to categorize users like this. Hattrick is designed to be a game where you don’t have to be constantly online to succeed, you should be able to play the game even though you just log in once a week. And as such, we should also make all game parts accessible to those who want to play the game like that. Also, some of the time you use to play Hattrick may not take place when you’re actually online. Many times you will find yourself thinking which lineup to use in the next series match while sitting on the bus, or thinking about different team strategies while laying in bed and so on. Simply put, one can’t just measure how active a player is from how much time he spends on the site.
And if you think about it, what’s the harm in letting “lazy” managers also benefit from a change and as a result also buying players on the transfer? I mean, we DO want more people to take part and enjoy the game.
Also, many core features included in Supporter are just such time-saving features, such as auto-joining the friendly pool, custom match orders and the whole match preview page to mention just a few things. And I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t call any Supporter lazy.
But don’t we want our users to be active on our site then? Yes, of course we do. But the way I see it, I want our users to spend quality time on our site. Making interesting decisions, scouting players and teams in order to find the tactics and strategy ahead, or having fun on our great forums. I see very little point in “forcing” users to be online at a certain time, in order to do a pretty repetitive task (as for example clicking the bid button for an uncertain number for minutes), if I can avoid it.
I simply want people to be log in for the right reasons, because I believe that in the end it will make a better game. Hattrick is a strategic management game, where the reward should be about finding the right player and the right strategy. We’re not the game that rewards online time just for the sake of it.
Amazing words! That’s not a post, it’s a speech!
Best feature ever! Nuff said!
Wait, one more thing: Thank you!
Thanks for this. As a non-European user, this will improve the gameplay experience a ton for me.
Then, how about changing the NT system?
Isn’t “forcing” coaches from the “wrong” parts of the world to be online at a ridiculous time in order to be able to compete with (mostly) Europe-based coaches unfair? Or is this what you call a “quality time”?
I agree it’s not optimal, but it is hard (impossible?) to find any time for matches etc that would fit good for all users around the world, regardless of where they live. Especially in our system environment, where we also have to fit in other updates accordingly.
So, you absolutely have a point. But the NT system problem is of a also of whole other magnitude than the transfer problem, as the latter affects so many more users.
How big is the window for NT matches to run in? Would it be possible to play at 8pm local time for where the match is played, or does that run into other updates?
No, it’s not be possible to run them at separate times.
I agree as a non European user it will make a huge difference.
thanks for the clarification. good move to not force ppl being online at a certain time. and if u, for good reasons, dont like to call ppl “lazy”, u can rtaher call them “busy”. busy with real life obligations, busy with sleeping at late night, or busy with or family issues.
i like autobid very much.
just make sure it wouldnt be allowed to autobid on own players !
Thanks for a good explanation for the reasoning behind the feature. However, I would like to point out that the phrase “There is simply no other task in the game that requires you to be online at a certain time” is clearly incorrect — for optimal or even near-optimal decisions we need to be online right before the matches, to be able to react to new players and coaches the opponent has acquired.
That phrase may have been a little overly general and simplistic, and said with a casual user in mind. For sure, to play the game “optimally” you’re required to log in at certain times. But I think you understand what I wanted to say anyway.
I completely agree. On every word.
Thanks for pointing out the reasons behind the feature and your transparancy!
I have not seen the working of this yet, but (although I am online most of the time) I think the idea of not having to be online all the time will attribute to the playing experience of a lot of managers. This game stays or falls with teh amount of users so every measure to higher or maintain the amount of users is a good one.
Keep on doing the great work that you all are doing and I will enjoy the game for a long long time!
Thanks a lot for your kind words!
thumbs up for this brand new feature…
I really don’t see any negative effect on the market by adding autobids. Usually bargains are found when there are many players sold in the same time and one is just overlooked. As a side comment: if you want to buy cheaper go for payers which have a very bad form at that moment.
But returning to the subject, I remember not once when I wanted a player that I had to set my alarm clock at 3 am and with red eyes I started bidding.
And of course we must remember that not all players are from Europe.
So go for it and may we all grow really old in the company of hattrick
Thanks for your explanation. I totally agree with it. For me the big advantage is not having to be online at the transferdeadline. I think I will just use autobidding at that moment.
This is bad news, in my homble opinion.
Quote of HT-TJECKEN
“For sure, to play the game “optimally” you’re required to log in at certain times.”
So far it has been that way in the transfer system as well, and for a good reason. There is a variety of ways to engage this game and one of them have been through the transfersystem. But with the “Autobid”, that angle to gain an advantage, is being seriously diminished, and therefor, long time strategic preparations for many managers is undermined by this new addition to the gameplay, making the advantage they have planned for and been online for so many hours, significantly smaller. That ain’t fair.
Why not live out the full meaning of the sentence:
“For sure, to play the game “optimally” you’re required to log in at certain times.”
And thereby make this game appealing to the wider audience, both the player who will use his online time, to make the best of his game preparation, to the player who use his online time, to make the best of his football school and young trainees, to the player who use his online time, to gain an advantage, by being a great buisnessman on the transfer market and to all those players who have found some kind of longterm strategi, which will make him a better contestant down the road. Why narrow in the possibilities for how one can choose to engage this game, which we have come to love?
I do appreciate your work and your constant effort in trying to make the game forever better, but this time I simply don’t agree with you, but think you are making the mistake of “streamlining” the game and creating fewer options for the player.
Have a nice day, and please come to your senses on this topic. ;-P
I like the feature, and adds more possibilities to the game.
One question though:
Don’t you think the transfer compare system does more harm then good?
It sets a direction on where the market is heading, and that is down.
There are of course other factors here as the number of active users mostly throughout the season keeps falling.
I’ve started to track the market on a daily basis, and will be doing so the next year to document the effects of the “TC” function.
No, absolutely not. Transfer compare helps educate users what a reasonable price is for a certain kind of player. It doesn’t in itself have anything to do with price trends, and the market would likely function less good if TC wasn’t there to help (that’s at least the case in irl economies).
Then why not expand the transfer compare to be 12 or 15 entries instead of 10; wouldn’t giving more information to buyers more acutely target unstable prices?
I know that many are not in agreement with this change, but I suppose that they would have disagreed to the same extend if we had a real-time match decision making feature and we were disabling it now. The argument and reasons behind this decision is so strong and “so” in line with HT philosophy that it makes me wonder why it took so many years to develop this feature. Better late than never, huh? thank you very much anyway. Hope there are more features like this to come (looking for improvements in fan club, prizes as well :D)
I know this is isn’t the place for such things, but i can’t think of other way to reach out to you…..
I think somebody should look into the hattrick staff in Argentina, the GMs are running amok banning people for life for personal reasons and without real merit…….they let they friends do whatever they want but when someone outside their group of friends does something similar they find themselves out of the game with no way to ever go back, they actually follow people they don’t like around the game trying to see if they do something that would be esed as an excuse to be kicked out.
and I don’t think Hattrick is in a position to keep loosing active managers just because a select group of guys decided to get rid of the people they don’y like.
If you think GMs don’t behave as they should, please report it to the senior GMs.
“There is simply no other task in the game that requires you to be online at a certain time”
Yes, there is at least one: Transferlisting your player to be sold at a certain time. We’ll have to see how auto-bids influence the variation in prices over different times of the week, still there is other significant reasons you would want to sell a player at a certain time (e.g. between training update and the next match the player should appear in).
Will you do anything to give more flexibility regarding the end time to the manager transferlisting a player?
No, we have no such plans right now.
I totally agree! You should be allowed to pick an end time within say 3-4 hours in either direction.
Clap Clap Clap. Amazing. Excellent idea. From the economic point of view, it’s even better, a tool that definitely involves efficiency and even moving the prices to the precise place…
No more waking up at 4 AM to buy a player…
I don ‘t always agree with you. But this time I totally do!
Well…I think it’s a bad idea.
The whole fun of the old system was that you could plan a few hours away from real life to chase that elusive player, that bargain in the middle of the night, the thrill of bidding against someone else who was on-line, checking their transfer history, wondering which of you had enough money…now that’s all gone. Now when you make a bid it can be gone in the blink of an eye…you have taken the feel of the hunt out of the transfer system.
Also I suspecrt the prices are going to rise, not fall. It is all too easy to autobid at a higher price which you might not have to go to if you’re bidding “Live.”
Just my tuppence worth after nine years of playing…wonder if I’ll get a cake for my tenth?
Yes, hopefully prices will rise! The best players are way too cheap due to their salaries, and when you train a player for months just to see him sold for “nothing” you feel like there’s no use in training players. I’ve bought expensive talents just to see them go a year later at a marginally higher price, even though their skills are vastly better.
Another huge issue is that it’s cheaper to buy young players than to run a youth squad week after week. And don’t get me started on how “old” players are unwanted in the game. The “magical” 30-year limit is getting a bit old. Back in the 80’s and early 90’s a player (irl) was pat his prime when he turned 30, but now footballers are athletes who can play well into their 30’s and even develop their game further. In fact, most footballers peak at a later time today than one or two decades ago. In Hattrick people panick and start selling players at age 26, because at 27 they’re simply considered too old to defend a decent price.
I like the auto-bidding feature, though. 😉
This is bad news! I`m against!
The auto-bidding is a good implementation. I am playing HT from 2003 and never liked the “chasing players for immediate profit” strategy. Thats a stupid and false strategy towards a football game and I am glad this will reduce it. It wont disappear, I dont want it to disappear, just to have it reduced.
Its better to encourage managers towards the gaming part rather than towards the “arcade” style which suits people with too much free time on their hands.
This also allows people to bid at certain hours when they are at work… and not living their life on HT transfer market…
HT-Tjecken, you should look into the National Teams system, maybe something can be done in that area also. And you guys need to speed up a little these updates to the game… It takes too much time for HT to implement simple things, like in the past substitutions or this auto-bidding. Its not like you have to invent new things, eBay had this system for decades 🙂
To sum it up, its nice you gave Supporters a little “power” to customize the looks of the club, but you need to add to that some more. Maybe ‘old boys’ games… if one has 11 players in Hall of Fame or something… for people playing HT for a long time, that would be pretty neat (nostalgia)… 1-2 such games per season, not more.
More customization would be nice for Supporters. Transfer prospect is also a good addition. For people looking for specific players needed for specific tactics, that helps. And this is a step in the right direction, people playing the game with their brains need to be encouraged rather than people trigger-happy with clicks.
If HT can keep this development rate, introducing useful stuff, I think I might be around for some other 10 years 🙂
RedBaron – FC UTA Arad
HT-Tjecken, are you guys working on some big change on HT or not?
Right now we’re working on the new shop, which is a pretty big change – but I guess that wasn’t what you meant. 🙂
We’ve also started working on ladder competitions, based on single matches. Something I like a lot and I think will be good alternative competition in the game, but it doesn’t really qualify as a big change.
This is what we work on right now. But as I said on the forums a while ago, I’ve got good hopes for us to work on the core game during this year.
“I simply want people to be log in for the right reasons, because I believe that in the end it will make a better game. Hattrick is a strategic management game, where the reward should be about finding the right player and the right strategy. We’re not the game that rewards online time just for the sake of it.”
Exactly Hattrick is to be as in the last paragraph was written. Nothing more, nothing less. Thank you very much and good luck! I look forward to more and more…
I never used the autobid function, but I really like the idea. There are so many ocassions where I’m not able to be online, like I’m in a meeting at work, or have supper with my family, or I need to help my kids with something. So autobid is great, and it helps a lot of people to purchase the right player on the TM.
Good Job HT-Team!!!
This shit sucks… That autobid is made for all the noobs. HT is only trying to get more peeps pay cash for them with these stupid updates that makes the game suck even more. Shame on you HT geeks!!!
Great improvement to the game. Very well written. Thank you.